Enough is enough.
What the Left giveth, the Left can taketh away.
Presidential candidates have four stages of life:
1 - Prior to being a national candidate, they have an actual record you can look at, and it’s the fairest way to judge them. It is however, no prediction of what they’ll be like when president. (Anyone remember when W was well known for reaching across the aisle?)
2 - They become primary candidates, where they do everything that their party’s voters want. (Obama: “I support the DC Gun Ban”)
3 - They become party nominees, where, having locked in their party’s votes, they suddenly change and go after the other side’s votes. (Obama: “I support the individual right to own guns”)
4 - They become president and change yet again. Into what, nobody knows.
Thanks for making me feel like a naive idealistic college age voter ;)
This might cost Obama the election. I agree with a certain degree of strategy in taking the Presidency, but Obama’s scenario is a bit different. I think he is underestimating the will of the millions of people he captivated to win the primary. Those weren’t your lock in step Democrats, those were voters with big expectations and I suspect they will hold him accountable. And if he doesn’t address, the election (from the Democrat point of view) will be quickly transformed into a “don’t let McCain win” strategy. Which is a non-starter. See 2000 and 2004.
I agree. The race to the middle is overrated. The other way to win is to energize your party with a vision and win with people on your side who might have otherwise stayed at home. Obama has been doing that well by every measurement, and I don’t know what happened. Maybe he’s spending too much time with Hillary.
I laughed rice out my nose when I saw Hillary on stage, surrounded by Bill’s advisers and appointees, announcing she was the candidate of change.
The neo-chimp will say/do anything to get elected, but the result will be a McCain presidency.
[Editor’s note: Bob is a real winner. I had to remove his “personal” link as it was to a teen porn site. I do however like the “neo-chimp” term, it describes John McCain perfectly.]
could we use bold instead of medium for the lead font?
“Wiretaps” is one word, and the typeface is wrong.
It was kind of surreal to see this show up on BoingBoing just now.
Anyways.
He just said today that he wanted to end US involvement in Iraq, and my first response was to append “… if it’s politically expedient” to the end of the statement. While I’d previously considered that a difficult position to show immediate action on, the fact that I now have even the THOUGHT to doubt it shows how much damage the FISA vote has done him in my mind.
Cory put it rather well on BB: “he’s gone from “best choice” to ‘least worst choice’ with one vote.”
“he’s gone from “best choice” to ‘least worst choice’ with one vote.”
Ya, that’s exactly it. I sat around a table of friends the other morning discussing my disappointment with Obama and the rebuttal from all of them was, “but you can’t let McCain win.”
That’s the point where I lose the passion in exercising my vote.
Mike you’re right. Updated poster.
Thanks for this!
Those weren’t your lock in step Democrats, those were voters with big expectations and I suspect they will hold him accountable.
Hold him to accountable for what? He was always rhetoric only - is it his fault you saw something more? Great expectations should come with a little scrutiny - your anger should be directed inward - you are the ones who got us into this mess.
Out of frustration, I left a comment on a Flickr shot belonging to the campaign last week.
“Let’s see, July 8th. That was the day before the HR 6304 vote. There’s something about this shot. Oh yes, yes I see it now. If you click on All Sizes and then take a good long look into Obama’s eyes, you can see him deciding to throw the 4th Amendment right under the Express Bus to the Center.”
Great expectations should come with a little scrutiny - your anger should be directed inward - you are the ones who got us into this mess.
Oh please! I’ll give you some room here since you don’t know me and I won’t expect you to take the time to read all my posts on this primary and election over the past 2 years.
I started with Edwards/Dodd. Chose Dodd first at my Caucus, then Edwards. Stuck with Edwards until he dropped. Then went in for Obama. I’ve posted plenty of scrutiny of Obama from day one. I’ve heard him speak 3 times and know what he has said to crowds of voters compared to what he’s done now with the FISA bill.
I’m no drone. I didn’t support him blindly and I expect him to keep his word. I expect the same of him as I expect of any candidate, whether I support them or not.
As far as the “you got us into this mess” part of your comment. That sounds like Hillary supporter horseshit. I can’t speak for the other Obama supporters, but “this mess” would be worse for Democrats if we had Hillary as the candidate. Don’t kid yourself there.
And to be clear, I still support Obama over McSame. But I feel that there needs to be some pressure on him to stand firmly opposed to Bush doctrines and live up to the candidate he’s presented himself as over the past 2 years.
I think this is much ado about nothing. First, except for the immunity for the telecoms, which does not affect them giving the government the personal information, it just says you cannot sue them for doing so, this bell just takes us to where we were before the Patriot Act circumvented the FISA (hope I spelled that right) court. Obama did not flip or flop. He said his opposition was to language in the origional bill that did not recognize the FISA court as the controlling authority for government wire tapsof suspected terrorist. When the language was changed to recognize that court, he changed his vote from “no” to “yes”. He set a condition for “yes”, the condition was met, he voted “yes”. It may not please the “left” but he did what he said he would do. The influence of cable news will have people believing anything; afterall they painted Barack Obama as a radical Baptist Muslim.
I don’t watch cable news (no TV in this house).
Obama said he was opposed to the retro immunity clause and people involved with his campaign are equally disappointed he voted yes.
Obama is known for abstaining in cases just like this yet he compromised with the Bush doctrine. It’s a pattern that discourages my passion for what he could bring to the White House.
The funny thing is we don’t see any news about Ron Paul? Good or bad…now this is a sad time for the American people.
Ken, you’re living in “La La Land”. There is no difference between Obama and McCain. They have the same stance on all the issues, including Iraq.
Personally I can’t help but shake the suspicsion, that this is a fake. I mean aren’t politcians suposed to put a positive spin on things? Cause I’m pretty sure If you want to convince people to do something it certaintly helps to not mention the illegality of your actions. This plus the fact that the image looks like something a retard could’ve made in photoshop. And personally i’ve never seen this poster IRL so I think this maybe some sort of prank or a smear campaign
Much of the negativity that has recently been published by the right wing sock-puppets about Senator Obama has in fact been refuted in many sane pages here on the internet. Much of it with his blessing I might add.
If anyone thinks that this imaginary effluent is going to prevent Mr. Obama from being nominated (and causing Hillary-”I landed under gun-fire” to be nomminated) and Grandpa McCain to be elected they are seriously delusional and should re-assess their mental health and perhaps see a professional.
We need a write in campaign for Dodd.
Great,
Make a satire poster. Pass it off as being genuine, and watch the web take it up and the right and McCain take it up and use it against you.
Yes, of course its satire, we get the point, but do they! Now Boing Boing has it and a whole bunch of comments that think its genuine.
And as for being “mad as hell”, you moron, think of a what its going to happen if McCain gives you another EIGHT years of Bushstyle politics. Then think of whats going to happen if we can get Obama in. With any and ALL stretches of the imagination.. which one is worse? And which one are you helping?
Calling me a moron isn’t productive but I’ll bite.
The reason I supported Obama over Hillary in the primary is because I believe that the candidate who stands tough on issues important to “the left” and contrasts themselves from Bush is the only candidate who can beat the Republicans. Hillary represented another Gore or Kerry. An election where the Democrats run to the middle and lose. Why? Because they lose the votes and most importantly the voice of the left base.
Bush wins because he stands to the right and harnesses the votes and voice of that passionate right. Obama cannot beat McCain by moving from his base. This race shouldn’t even be close if he stands where he’s stood (tough against Bush doctrines). But he’s not. The real morons are the strategists who are advising him to chase those middle votes by moving right.
I feel like I am helping. I’ve not only seen Obama in person and shook his hand and exchanges a few words, but I’ve followed his speeches and blog. He’s pushed the idea of transparency, open dialogue and accountability. Obama wants to be a president who’s decisions are questioned, he wants to be a candidate who listens . . . he is his chance.
It’s absurd to me that you’d call me a moron for speaking me mind and calling candidates on their shit whether they be right or left. Democrats (like you) need to stop worrying about how the game is played and start actively pushing your party to produce a clear platform and results in Washington.
What are you afraid of at this point? I have no interest in mediocrity.
I havent read half of the replies so far, but to the guy who said “Ya, that’s exactly it. I sat around a table of friends the other morning discussing my disappointment with Obama and the rebuttal from all of them was, “but you can’t let McCain win.””
I hear the same things from my anti-Obama friends about McCain. It’s a small world aint it?
Clinton would have been worse, Edwards would have been a better choice. Strictly opinion here, not meant to piss anyone off.
All you people are lame bitchin’ over one vote.
You think one politician is gonna be your personal hero
and save the world? It is what it is, and Obama is the name
you gotta check in November. You’re never going to agree with him 100%. This is a unique situation in history, and nothing is the same, its not one lesser over the other; it’s a flawed capitalist
system with predictable results including most of these responses.
Start using payphones if you dont want to be wiretapped
or organize a demonstration, petition, run for office, do something
other than bitch about what Obama did and how you disagree with it.
The poster is powerful and it makes a good point. But all this “Screw Obama, I’m over it” talk is just really stupid to me. Republicans can go to hell. As for Democrats, the fight within continues.
“All you people are lame bitchin’ over one vote.”
So if Obama decides to vote in favor of staying in Iraq until the end of time you won’t be the least bit annoyed? We know we have no choice. We also know we’ve been lied to. I may be silly, but I get pissed off when people lie to me, especially when they lie to me about important things like how they’re going to vote on allowing the government to freely wiretap me.
“Start using payphones if you dont want to be wiretapped”
1: Why should I even have to worry about being wiretapped? I’ve never done anything wrong, but now I have to assume that all my phone calls are being recorded for eternity. Heaven forbid I make a joke some future generation might consider dangerous; anything I say today could very well be thoughtcrime in a decade or 2. Guess I’d better sew my mouth shut.
2: What payphones? Payphones around here started disappearing 10 years ago as people started to get cell phones.
Nice. I like.
Some of use hold these truths to be self-evident. Apparently, also, some of us don’t.
obama is another nancy pelosi riding the wave and then abandoning the issues.
here is a crazy thought
Cynthia McKinney Green Party
all your collective moaning about the inevitable sell out of the democratic hopeful will in time become a howl of survival at which point the shift to an established alternative to the two party system will reach critical mass. For now lick your wounds and just sniffle on about how Obama is the lesser of two evils and the green party is weakening his chances
McKinney would have voted it down.
in the meantime
WATCH WHAT YOU SAY
The only thing I like about the Democratic party is the stance on civil liberties. Wait, what am I talking about! They don’t support civil liberties. They only support the civil liberties that serve them in the present moment. So now that FISA serves the interests of a presidential candidate, it is a good thing to support.
Funny, the word “Democrat” could be replaced with the word “Republican” and my statements would still ring true…
The FISA Loss: Recommendations for the Future
Selise’s superb diary on FISA has finally persuaded me to write a post that I’ve been thinking about for some time: a recap of the FISA fight with thoughts on what we could have done differently.
Before I talk about what we could improve though, let me say this. Everyone involved, Republican, Democrat, House and Senate, attributes the unexpectedly tough battle over FISA to the work of the Netroots: bloggers, MoveOn, and most importantly their readers, partnering with the civil liberties groups and a few leaders in Congress to push back against a legislative tidal wave. Aside from Josh Marshall’s resoundingly successful campaign to save social security–in which public opinion and Democratic leadership always supported the same goals as the Netroots–this was the first real sustained legislative campaign waged by the Netroots. We were fighting against a telecom and intelligence contracting industry that, in addition to being rich, has been fighting these battles for years. Looked at from that perspective, we had remarkable success. And if we replicate this effort on other topics, we will have more success in the future. In fact, I rather think the news that Chris Dodd is one of the few people confirmed to have made the vetting stage of the VP search (though I highly doubt Obama will choose him–I think it’s political theater), when Hillary and Jim Webb and Joe Biden and others have not, suggests Obama recognizes that he took our efforts too cavalierly. We did a lot right in this fight; if we learn the right lessons from it, we will be more powerful and effective in the future.
That said, here are some things we should do in the future:
Improve intelligence oversight
Admit we’re dealing with legislators
Identify the real terms of debate
Recognize when leadership begins to negotiate
Profile all the key players
Great minds think alike.
If we don’t vote for what we want in the election, we’ll never see it come to pass. This is why I’m voting for Cynthia McKinney.
Of course, a vote for Ralph Nader is also good.
We need some kind of civic revival in this country.
The two parties just stand in the way of that.
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Leave a comment
